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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 11, 2009 11:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

deleted

This post was modified by johnnyonthespot on 2009-11-11 19:17:14

This post was modified by johnnyonthespot on 2009-11-11 19:17:45

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 11, 2009 11:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

John - didn't catch your original post as it was deleted before I got here but I'll give you some support on this. A net cast wide enough to bring in anyone who ever put on an armed services uniform is going to bring in some lowlifes and assholes along with the good guys. I believe that's all you were saying, and I back you.

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Poster: deyzof49 Date: Nov 11, 2009 11:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

I notice you consider yourself a wordsmith. Forgive me, but what bullshit.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 11, 2009 12:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

If you seriously think that everyone, without exception, who puts on a uniform is worthy of respect then frankly it is you who is full of it. If you fail to see that saying what I said in no way denigrates the men and women who deserve our undying gratitude then you, sir, are a fool.

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Poster: deyzof49 Date: Nov 12, 2009 2:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

My illthought and rude remarks were prompted by drunkeness. This wharfrat (two weeks short of three years sobriety) hopes you can accept my sincere apologies. You are indeed a wordsmith. Sorry.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 12, 2009 2:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You deyzof49

Apology accepted absolutely and without question. You're not the first and won't be the last to post while under the influence. I've certainly done it a time or two myself...

Good luck with being a wharfrat. It can be done.

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Poster: deyzof49 Date: Nov 13, 2009 11:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You deyzof49

I'm tryin not to go cold turkey, but you are very gracious. Thanks.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Nov 11, 2009 12:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

Is Robert Graves "Goodbye to all that" required reading across the pond? Should be.

I salute the Good Soldier Švejk in anticipation of the Velvet Revolution's 20th Anniversary.

To those that serve with honor and dignity, thanks. To those that get out and join Blackwater, fuck off.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 11, 2009 12:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

Maybe I'm being slow on the uptake in not being entirely sure whether you're chastising me or not. Be assured that I have read several war memoirs, and that I have been moved to tears by the sacrifices made by ordinary people who showed extraordinary bravery. I'm grateful for your consideration in suggesting further reading. This in no way changes my opinion that not everyone who puts on a uniform is 'good'.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Nov 11, 2009 12:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

Not trying to be a dick (that just comes naturally). Goodbye to all that is Graves' memoir about trench warfare in WW I (for which my grandfather served in first MASH units in France - think he saw some stuff doing surgery on the battlefield in France?) and the division b/w the enlisted men and officer ranks. Very much a critique of the British class system and the division b/w officers and enlisted men.

But I'll give Flow his due and state that I do honor those who serve (many, many folks in my extended/immediate family) - but I also agree w/ the larger point both JOTS and you were trying to make. If that is offensive today, I apologize (and expect to be called out - just as I called out and don't forgive Skies for her/its post on 9/11).

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Poster: skies Date: Nov 12, 2009 9:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

To put it politally , Bdevil : i don't give a shit about your tunnel opinions abot wars and killers called soldiers , and couldn't care less what you can forgive or not , stupid phony jerk !!!

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Nov 12, 2009 10:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

Skies, great to hear from you - and keep fucking off! Now go listen to a great 85 bobby learning to play slide on little red rooster so you can really catch the spirit.

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Poster: banditos33 Date: Nov 13, 2009 5:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

We are just saying thanks to the vets over here not in France you all are just not that valuable.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 11, 2009 1:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

If this isn't the day to talk about these things then when is? The horrors of WWI are beyond imagining; the magnitude of WW2 is beyond comprehension; the self-sacrifice of someone who volunteers to go out and kill or be killed on behalf of his or her country is something I could never match. We're not trying to be offensive, just opening a debate. Isn't freedom of speech one of the things those people fought for?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 13, 2009 5:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

It's interesting that the British system actually lead to a far greater respect among the ranks for the officers than in the French. The brit heritage til 1916 was a small, all volunteer elite force for imperialistic use, in which you literally "bought" your rank, horse, etc. The officers with the orig BEF were much more assoc with the ranks, and the ranks in general were MUCH better cared for than the French, in which the history since prior to Napoleon had been of a MUCH larger conscript army with much more of a cannon fodder, us vs them (off vs ranks) view. The officers generally came to the front for the over the top, and then left to return to their cushy billet well behind the lines.

Anyhow, the brits did not suffer the mutiny the French did because of the dramatic diff in treatment, in part, of lower ranks by officers, interest in their welfare, etc., etc.

The horror of sitting in a trench being shelled for day after day after day was true for many French, but the exception for the brits who were generally only in the front line trench for 24-72 hrs per MONTH.

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Poster: banditos33 Date: Nov 11, 2009 1:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

What is wrong with Blackwater? I kind or like the shoot first ask later policy.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 11, 2009 11:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

thanks rob but I guess i see vapors point that maybe it was tacky of me to disrupt a thread that was supposed to be positive

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Nov 11, 2009 12:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

True.

I think I will stop celebrating July 4th as I hear John Adams was a real dick.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 11, 2009 12:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

Please don't think I'm having a go at service personnel generally. The first thing I thought when I heard about Fort Hood is that I hoped your son wasn't involved. The good guys will always have my respect.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Nov 11, 2009 12:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

Hey, my comment was purley in jest (but it doesn't change the face that Adams WAS a douchebag on a personal level, or so says Ben Fraklikn) and I appreciate the thoughts regarding my son.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 11, 2009 2:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

that's because Adams had too much passion to be a diplomat. Dude spoke it like he felt it and didn't hold back.

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Poster: high flow Date: Nov 11, 2009 12:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

Today is one of those times when you say something nice, or nothing at all. Out of respect.

Tomorrow we may return to healthy, or unhealthy debate. Today we bow our heads in quiet solidarity as we remember those who have made the ultimate sacrifice.

I expect that from EACH and EVERY American Citizen. Is that wrong, or too much to ask?

This post was modified by high flow on 2009-11-11 20:45:56

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 11, 2009 12:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

Flow, I have total respect for those who sacrificed, please don't doubt that. All I think John and I are objecting to are those undeserving few who hitch a ride on our deeply deserved feeling for the many.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 11, 2009 12:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans


HORRIBLE comparison. John Adams was integral to our Independance and he sacrificed for all the right reasons and dind't expect anything in return- not to get out of his one horse town and then demand he be respected, then do nothing but bad mouth the government all day while collecting disability checks when he isn't disabled.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Nov 11, 2009 12:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

Sarcasm, purely sarcasm.

A thousand apologies.


Can we all just move on now?

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 11, 2009 1:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

it was funny. and yes

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Nov 11, 2009 12:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

Only Thomas Jefferson said John Adams was a dick.

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Nov 11, 2009 12:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

"John Adams still lives on, that DICK!"

-Thomas Jefferson
(on his deathbed, July 4, 1826)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 11, 2009 1:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

Barely....barely held on...

right? they both went down that day...

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Nov 11, 2009 1:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

Both Adams and Jefferson died on July 4, 1826. The fiftieth anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence. As we all know, Thomas Jefferson drafted the Declaration in committee with John Adams (and Benjamin Franklin).

After George Washington retired from the Presidency, John Adams became President and Thomas Jefferson became Vice-President. The two men had disagreed politically throughout the Washington Administration, and were only both elected because in those days, whomever came in second in the Presidential vote became Vice-President. During the Adams Administration, the two differed on almost every issue, and Jefferson defeated Adams and took the Presidency in 1800. To make a long story short, although they had worked together in the cause for independence, Adams and Jefferson became truly bitter enemies when political parties began to form around each of them.

Luckily, Adams and Jefferson reconciled in their retirement and they became the absolute best of friends as they lived out their final years. Both men were conscious of living to see the fiftieth Fourth of July, and both, despite knowing they were on their death beds, made genuine efforts to hang on to dear life until the day had come.

John Adams's final words were (supposedly), "Thomas Jefferson survives." But he was wrong. Jefferson had died just hours earlier at Monticello.

Five years to the day after Adams and Jefferson died -- on July 4, 1831 -- the fifth President, James Monroe, passed away. So three presidents have died on the same date: July 4th.

One more Presidential fact about the Fourth of July. Calvin Coolidge, the 30th President, was born in Vermont on July 4th, 1872!

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 11, 2009 1:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

No, there is ONE more word(s):

Red and white/blue suede shoes
I'm Uncle Sam /how do you do?
Gimme five/I'm still alive
Ain't no luck/I learned to duck

Check my pulse/it don't change
Stay seventy two/come shine or rain
Wave the flag/pop the bag
Rock the boat/skin the goat

Wave that flag
Wave it wide and high
Summertime
Done come and gone
My oh my

I'm Uncle Sam /that's who I am
Been hidin' out/in a rock and roll band
Shake the hand that shook the hand
Of P.T. Barnum/and Charlie Chan

Shine your shoes/light your fuse
Can you use/them ol' U.S. Blues?
I'll drink your health/share your wealth
Run your life/steal your wife

Wave that flag
Wave it wide and high
Summertime done
Come and gone
My oh my

Back to back/chicken shack
Son of a gun/better change your act
We're all confused/what's to lose?
You can call this song/the United States Blues

Wave that flag
Wave it wide and high
Summertime done come and gone
My oh My
Summertime done come and gone
My oh My

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Nov 11, 2009 2:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: I got your history right here...

A Twisted Trip Back In Time:.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3459121/701_im_a_little_bit_country_southpark_001/

Check starting at about 8:50 in (it is relevant)

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Nov 11, 2009 2:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I got your history right here...

Is that Will Tell as Mr. Garrison

If so we all must be the unruly students



"I'm not from here at all, I'm having a flashback" -- LMFAO

This post was modified by jglynn1.2 on 2009-11-11 22:37:25

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 11, 2009 2:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I got your history right here...

Do I come with Mr hand and Mr Slave?

Hmmm...okay, don't answer that...what a set-up.

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Poster: clintorus Date: Nov 11, 2009 2:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I got your history right here...

SMILE sdh >

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chJ-Rt_rfaA

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Nov 12, 2009 7:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I got your history right here...

Believe it or not, we've been down that road:

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=186841

(I had to update to include the photo, was not showing up in the history)

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Poster: clintorus Date: Nov 13, 2009 8:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I got your history right here...

atleast the Battle Pope found Jerry again.

DO YOU THINK IT'S HIM ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_dZ4G0B974&;feature=related

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Nov 11, 2009 12:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

Awesome. Someone gets the humor.

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Poster: vapors Date: Nov 11, 2009 10:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

JOTS - Not telling you what to do or say, and if you feel the need to rant about your co-workers who am I to stop you. Plenty of other useless and demeaning stuff gets posted here all the time.

Our veterans ought to have our gratitude and respect –your approach at getting something off your chest regarding so-called “vets” you work with seems a bit misplaced here. Just saying what I feel. Peace and out. vapors

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 11, 2009 11:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

yeah i guess s. some things aren't allowed to be said anywhere. some people are untouchable ( even the ones that are a-holes )I'll delete due to peoples rabid sensitivities

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Poster: deyzof49 Date: Nov 11, 2009 11:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

Perhaps I misunderstood yer post too. One of my friends I saw today was on the beach at Normandy. Him and my father and their friends , modest quiet men did their duty without expecting any respect from you. It's always the poor working classes who fight the wars. Some of my friends were in Vietnam, being English I escaped conscription. I'm probably as old as yer Father and too old to queue up for the latest computer war game.
I'm with Leonard. Don't make me puke.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 11, 2009 11:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

here's what i was saying if you misunderstood - I'll use a military story. I knew this guy who was a chief in the Air Force. To those that don't know chief is pretty much as high as you can get as an enlisted man and many times carry a lot more weight and clout than many officers. This guy was walking then starts walking really fast and says hurry up, I don't want to have to give officer so and so a salute. Apparently this guy was an officer but the chief had no respect for him and if he got caught face to face he'd have to salute him due to rank.

Get it now? That's all I was saying. There's some guys I know that I don't want to have to figuratively salute.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 11, 2009 12:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

Oh--well then my post below was only half on target. Understood--then I would just argue that we can praise the group in general while agreeing there are always some bad apples, which has already been covered, and sure you're cool with...

My bad.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 11, 2009 11:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

" Him and my father and their friends , modest quiet men did their duty without expecting any respect from you."

I do respect those guys. Just like I respect this guy I work with who was in vietnam, doesn't talk about it, doesn't WANT to talk about it. It's just that I see the ones that are always the most vocal about this seem to be the ones who didn't do anything and expect their ass to be kissed. If that makes you puke then so be it.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 11, 2009 11:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

Hey J--seems like it's all water under the bridge now, and you're right: this was a thread of "thanks" for a category/class of folks that I know you respect, in principle, even if struggling to with various individuals in practice. Thus, as you note, probably not the right place for a "hijack" (if that's what it was) to note exceptions or other issues apart from the general notion of thanks to those that have experienced the horrors of war for their country, when it's been right, and when it's been wrong.

The world has become increasingly complex, and we still struggle with developing alternative approaches to political and cultural differences that don't involve violence of various sorts (from war to imperialism to economical exploitation, etc)...but, suffice it to say many a young man (and now women) has been placed in horrific circumstances beyond his control, and by defn had to view it as a terrible job that had to be done with only the lives of others of the squad, platoon and perhaps company the only concern. It's just not appropriate for them to make judgements in those immediate circumstances, apart from classic war crimes instances, and thus, inappropriate for us to judge them on what we have the liberty of debating (in part due to prior vet sacrifices) under nonbattle conditions.

At least that's my take on why we attempt to separate "thanks" to the vets from endorsing political ends, or particular failings of the military industrial complex.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 11, 2009 12:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

hey Tell. I understand that it was bad on my part to chime in like that. It just sometimes burns me to lump some people in with others

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Nov 12, 2009 5:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

A wise person once told me, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."

Thanks to all the veterans for their service.

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Poster: banditos33 Date: Nov 11, 2009 11:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thank You Veterans

That just about goes for any group of people. There are always a couple that are fubar. Thanks vets. God, guns, and guts is what made America great. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpDCrMVtVI0erica

This post was modified by banditos33 on 2009-11-11 19:28:34